Who is KMusicAndBlackWomen?
And was K-music and Black women a good thing for Black K-pop fans?
KmusicandBlackwomen has been infamous among the Black K-pop fandom since the early 2010s. From the blogs inception, the blogger behind the site has kept herself a secret. This hasn’t stopped fellow Black K-pop fans from praising or criticizing her.
Lars: She’s [K-Music And Black Women] made Black K-pop fans be in a really bad light because she has openly started her blog fetishizing Asian men and Asian [man] Black woman relationships. And just the way she goes about in the K-pop space [it’s] really toxic and super unhealthy. And honestly really weird because she’s a grown woman. Often times she’s thirsting over these like teenage boys or these young bands, and really try to make it to where it seems like if you’re a Black K-pop fan, you’re only doing it because you’re self-hating.
Because she’s the type of person who — I remember this one situation was really funny. I think there’s like this one group that was taking a photo on the sidewalk or something, there was a Black girl all the way across the street. Like they can’t even see her, but I guess one member was like glancing over. And then she made a whole post red circle, arrows, and everything being like, “Do you see the chemistry? He obviously really likes her like, oh my God, the Asian men do love us, etc.” Just weird stuff like that. And it’s like girl, sis, no.
And like, we shouldn’t have to seek validation from, you know, a certain demographic in order to feel better about ourselves, especially in the nature of K-pop where we’re already kind of like a minority within a minority space, you know? We shouldn’t have to be like, “Oh, yeah. I mean, I only love Asian men. Like I’ve loved them since I was a child. I want to marry my oppa blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.”
It’s weird. It’s problematic on so many fronts. There’s so many layers to it. And also like you’re making it harder for the rest of us. Cause we already have to fight to be taken seriously and then you’re having these multiple blogs. They’re thirsting over Asian men, almost stalking them in a way being like, “see how many times he looked at this Black woman” and it’s like, no, because he didn’t it. It’s a lot. I could go on for hours, but I’m going to stop right there.
Destiny: I know it can get a little overboard. Just seeing like, you know, just seeing different posts from them, however, I’m going to be the devil’s advocate here and say that it is actually a good thing [for Black K-pop fans]. Because if you’re someone who hasn’t been able to find other, you know, other Black women specifically to go to K-pop events with, or even just talk about it with, because you know, like it’s hard finding people to talk [to] especially being in a small town, it’s hard to find people to talk about things that you love. You know what I mean? Like I am from a small town, so it’s hard for me to reach out and find people with similar around my age to say, “Hey, like I love K-pop, let’s talk about it. Let’s grab some coffee. Let’s, you know, let’s obsess about these things that we love.” And I think if you find the right people on there, that could be a safe and, um, just a cool place to meet people.
And yeah, it can be a little distasteful, but I think as far as making friends, that could be like, that could be the place that you want to go, you know? Like that could be your squad. Like, you know, me and Deb specifically, be talking about, um, you talk about [K-Music And Black Women] a lot. Like we joke about it and we’d clown about it. But at the same time, in the same breath, like it’s something that brings us together because we’re like, we’re not that obsessive over it to the point where like fantasizing about Asian men and things like that, and like fetishizing them. But like, we make fun of them as in like, “Oh yeah, that’s a little OD,” but like they’re in that chaos, in that mess. There has to be at least maybe like four or five other people who are similar to us who aren’t taking it that far, but just. See it as a safe space for black women to [fan girl] over a K-pop. So it could be a good thing.
Deb: I agree with both of you. Larissa, I see what you’re saying. I don’t even know if I want to say it is a little bit of the person behind [the blog], but some of the stuff that I have seen that are problematic have been user generated things. So like, especially on her blog, this has died down a little bit, but there are story times that like people would submit. And sometimes those story times would be about men that are Asian, not even idols, and sometimes not even Korean men.
I was like okay… I get why you’d want to share that, but I’m just thinking about the motivations behind that thought process of why you’d want to share an encounter you had with a regular schmegular ‘Joe Kim’. I just — were you fetishizing him? Were you seeking him out? There is nothing wrong with liking Asian men that's totally fine, I like people of all races myself, but why is this particular instance in your life something you feel you want to definitely share with an online blog that talks about Korean music and Black women? I feel like that is a little iffy and problematic, but on the other hand, just like Destiny is saying there is definitely some level of representation K-Music And Black Women is offering to Black fans of K-pop. We already know how hard it is to be a Black K-pop fan. There are a lot of things morally and ethically you have to fight with internally when it comes to liking K-pop because like it or not K-pop is derivative of a lot Black music. We already have to deal with that and deal with people fighting that reality, acting as if its not true.
…
It’s hard to [have our culture] be disrespected in different ways and have people abuse it so I think being a Black K-pop fan is already hard enough and this blog offers some level of solstice to people who feel that way. And there are other people who definitely don’t even care about how K-pop gets its music and definitely aren’t “woke”, for a lack of a better word. And they’re just super blindly supportive of K-pop music and I think she definitely has those types of Black fans. I think, in there there’s people kind of like us that are a bit more critical and still in the same breath enjoy [K-pop] from a more informed standpoint.
Lars: Yeah, I agree the concept behind it is something that I love. I do agree with you and Destiny’s points on how it does create that, like safe space and solstice. Especially after growing up in a place, if you’re around people in real life you don’t share your interests, to have that online is amazing…. What bothers me is just the person behind it. Yeah. I mean, she has the tendencies of a young K-pop fan. Like, you know, like when you first discovered K-pop you’re like 14, 15. And it’s the same with the anime how you have your weeb phase, like how you go over the top and overboard because you’re just so excited about it, but know because she is older and she still has these tendencies, it comes off as predatory at times are just in many ways toxic. And I worry whether she’s using the platform she has created correctly or if shes just creating more of an issue for the younger K-pop fans she attracts the way being the way that she is.
Deb: It does make sense and I agree with that. I, for me, especially as an anime and K-pop fan. I actually don’t think I’ve gone through the extreme — you know how you like something it kind of gradually reaches its high peak that its straight up a point of delusion before you kind of slowly come back down… I didn’t have that with K-pop and anime, but I did have that with One Direction.
…
To go back to my point, I never really had that with K-pop or anime and I feel like a lot of the people that subscribe K-Music And Black Women’s page are definitely those fans that are at that peak and she’s sort of adding fuel to the fire or enabling that thought process and behavior with what she does and things she encourages.
Destiny: I had that, like that type of a phase when I was really into anime, like I got to the point where I started writing fan fiction. Um, because I was so heavily invested and then it looks like all I thought about I bought like notebooks. And if you — you ever see the Bob’s Burgers [episode where] Tina was like writing erotic fan fiction? Hers was about Zombies and sh*t, but mine was about Case Closed and Avatar: The Last Airbender. And it was to the point where I was like, wow. Okay. And I mean, I grew out of it and I feel like that’s why I feel like it’s fine because I mean, it sucks. I don’t know the person behind it, but I mean, [if] she’s grown. It’s like, all right, girl, what’s going on? But as far as from a teenage standpoint, like you have those blogs that take up like you’re entire fandom and it takes up your obsession and it like helps. It almost feeds your obsession a little bit, because like, all you want to do is go and learn and look up stuff and check it every day, see more ships stories and pictures and things like that. So again, it’s like, I think it’s fine. And I think that’s part of being young. And I think that’s like, as I feel like it’s okay, because you should have certain things like that, but at the same time, if she’s older and she’s running this account — in my head, I always thought she was like young, like maybe 12, 13, maybe like.
Deb: Larissa do you know when it [K-music And Black Women] started? Like 2014 or something?
Lars: I remember it being a thing when I was still in high school and I graduated 2013. So when I first started to see it pop up in 2011/2012… I remember, and I know she has to be in her thirties.
…
Deb: (trying to calculate age) Let’s say she was 18 in 2011. Then she’d be what?
Destiny: Regardless of the fact if she’s in her twenties… if she’s in her late twenties, like, girl, what are you doing? I mean, if she’s in her late twenties if anything, she should be like, not reprimanded, but you know, like you had responsibility to uphold, like you can like kids use your platform as a place to escape, to let their obsessions fly. You know, that’s fine, but you can’t indulge. You can’t feed into it, like you gotta be like, listen guys, like you’re responsible, a responsible blog. Like there’s certain things where like, um, I follow a couple of Euphoria fan pages and they’ll say like, “in no way, shape or form, are we romanticizing addiction,” there’s like, there’s a certain cause. You know, people will watch like Rue’s character and watch her do drugs and be addicted to drugs and think like there’s something cool. Or like, it’s just part of a romantic story line, but there’s a lot of dangerous parts of drug addiction. If you have a K-pop fan blog and you know, the young girls are in there [are] fetishizing Asian people and Asian culture. You should say something and be like, no, that’s not right. Or, you know, yeah let’s say, you know, we all have a healthy love for K-pop and these bands but at the same time, let’s not, let’s not beat people into a wall because they don’t like our bands. Don’t fetishize grown people. Like, you know, your oppa might love you one day, but you know, don’t make it a thing. You know, it just be that adult in the group chat. Kids will be kids and they will do what they want to do. Period. Like they will, they will fall into that deep hole because, you know, I feel like when we were younger, there’s a lot of stuff. Like we would say like something was gay and now we’re adults and we know that’s not the right thing to say. It’s the same way as like, I love Asian men, but there’s a difference between being like, “oh yeah, that’s my type where I’m attracted to them”. Or there’s a part where it’s like, oh no, you’re just fetishizing the part. You’re not attracted to the person. It’s like everything else. That’s stereotypical. You know what I mean? So it’s like, she should be an adult in the group if she’s in her thirties. That’s weird. That’s weird.
Lars: That’s what I’m saying! It’s a little off. As you grow, like to use an example again, with the anime. As an anime fan, I’ve definitely have grown in how I interact in the space and my love for anime. I’m not like [the] cringey or weeb I was at 13, 14…. I’m not using broken Japanese or wanting to go to Japan because it’s the ‘best country in the world’ compared to ‘stupid’ America. You know what I mean? Like I know how to interact in this space. I love what I love without being obnoxious about it.
…
Lars: Its the same with K-pop, a lot of the bands people first get their gateway into grow up with them so its not like necessarily still fetishizing 15 year old fictional characters or whatever but if you’re in this space and you still look at the younger groups that are debuting are like, “ooh he’s still my bias, ooh, I’d let him do this to me” and you’re a grown ass woman you need to take a hard look at what you’re doing in your fandom because something is not quite there in your appreciation for the music.
Deb: Um, agreed because yeah, I have friends that are K-pop fans that are older than me that are in their late twenties or early thirties. We all went to the BTS concert together and they all fully acknowledge that they’re older than BTS. Like, luckily for us, using the example of BTS we’re in their age range. Whereas my friend, one of them, at least one of them was like actually older than Jin, and she fully acknowledges that. And doesn’t talk about them in a way that is like very predatory, granted they [BTS] are grown adults, she doesn’t fetishize them and she doesn’t speak in a way that’s like really problematic. So like knowing where to police yourself is something that is very important that I feel like K-Music And Black Women could do a better job at doing that. If they’ve been around for eight years, even if she started this blog at age 10. You’re an adult now.
Destiny: Yeah, there in level. There’s a standard. It sucks. Trust me. I wish I could go back to just being cringey weeb and not being woke and not understanding, uh, just like being obsessed in something. But there’s a, there’s a part of maturity that comes with age that you just can’t be that ignorant kid anymore. You have to, I mean, you can be an ignorant adult, but you’re going to get dragged and you know, it’s not the right. It’s not the right thing to do. You know, at some point you have to grow up, okay, what I’m doing or this level of stanning. This part of stanning is just to the point where it’s it’s, it’s just it’s not right anymore. And I have to take that responsibility because now it’s the younger kids. I mean, not every kid is going to grow out of it, as you can see at certain cons, not every kid grows out of that fandom, we see cons you see ’em everywhere. And it’s like, right. You’re 35 and you’re still being cringe. It’s like, you know, those people, people who like complain about certain things like skin tone, skin color, things like that when it comes to a certain character, but it’s like, the character is still the same or if not better than they were in the past, but it’s because it’s not your waifu who you feel a way about it. So it’s like the thing, some people don’t grow out of it and they need that extra guidance. Um, to, you know, just, they need that extra guidance. And if you’re going to have a blog as big as yours, you should be that person of reason and say, okay, this is getting a little too cringe worthy like, just take a step back.
Lars: Or set a better example for the younger ones, being like, “hey, I get it, I was you when I first started but we need to tone it down… this is what I did to be where I am now. I have emotional growth while still being as big of a fan when I first started.”
Deb: So I’ve noticed that K-Music And Black Women, she does this thing where she like deactivated her blog or Twitter or Instagram for a while. And kind of be like yeah I just needed a break and always kind of referenced ‘the haters’ so I wanna have a little discussion on how you feel about her talking about ‘the haters’ whether or not people have points. Are there points being made? Or she just doesn’t want to hear [the criticism]? What do you guys think?
Lars: I think its a combination of both. I think she does have people who take it a bit too far and act malicious towards her when there is a better way to go about acknowledging the things that she does or interacting with her in general. But I think the majority of them are just like critiquing, trying to get constructive criticism. You know, this isn’t cool. This is how I feel about this or
hey, maybe you shouldn’t really just — I feel like a lot of them are just kind of in a blunt way telling her to own up to what she does. Or just like point blank, blank. Whenever she does something weird or just problematic thing. Being like that’s not cool. We don’t really tolerate that. And her lashing out and plugging her fingers in her ears and saying, well, if you’re against me, that’s just because you’re a hater and blah, blah, blah, heaters always loves to talk. Which kind of, again, shows like the emotional maturity that she has, because that’s the response that I would have given when I was like 13, like, “oh, whatever haters gonna hate”. But then, you know, a lot of the times now if someone says something, I’ll take a moment and be like, well, actually was I doing that? Was that actually problematic? Let me reflect. And then it can be like, okay, you know what? That was, that was a bit much, I’ll tone that down. And then being able to discern those constructive criticisms from people who are just like, Oh no, you’re just being like ugly for no reason. And I’m not gonna entertain you.
Destiny: I, I definitely, I don’t know. Social media can — I’m all for taking social media breaks. Um, especially like on my own social media and for my own podcast. Like I do that a lot. I run away for a bit and people aren’t even malicious to me. I don’t have, thank God, I don’t have any ‘haters’, I guess. Um, I just feel like. It’s good to take a break, but at the same time, piggybacking off of what Larissa said, like, are you, is it really, hate, are you getting like people being rude to you for the sake of you having this awesome blog that you’re trying to show awareness to? Like what a part of the hate are they saying to you, is it like, oh, you know, nobody would know you’re old. Oppa would never, my oppa would never date a Black girl like you, or is it like something like that? Or is it to the point where other people in the community, you’re saying, girl, this is problematic. Like, what are you doing?
That’s the thing, like if it’s, if it’s being problematic, you have the option to change that. I don’t run away and think people are just going to forget that you were there. If you’re still being problematic, people are going to still know. Still call you out on it until you change, because they either like your blog and see potential in you and what you could do for the community.
Or they just, you know, like they believe in you or there’s people who are just going to bash you, because you know, you’re a Black woman and you’re talking about something that is, I don’t want to say a niche market, but it’s not something that most people would assume ‘black women be into’. It’s like a two, like double side of the story kind of cause she, yeah, like if you, if it’s literally people in your community saying this is problematic, you need to change, then change it, girl, try it, try changing it.
Instead of taking a break. Or if you’re going to take a break, take a break, revamp yourself. Cause I do that a lot. I take a break to be exactly. I take a break, I take a step back, look at my brand a lot of the time and I’m like, okay, what could I do better? How could I get more interactions? I, and I take people’s comments and criticism and I say, okay, well let me see what I could do to be better.
So if you, next time you take a break instead of saying, oh, it’s just the haters. Just be like, Hey, guess what? We’re going to stop talking about this so much. See how it works. If you’re not getting as much hate comments or if it’s solely just like people being ignorant, then not, then that’s one thing. But if it’s literally like you just not changing anything, girl, like obviously you’re going to still get haters, quote, unquote.
Deb: It’s a little bit of both, but from what I seen, I feel like she addresses the hate within our own community more. So she’d be like, “oh yeah, most of the time, most of the hate from other Black people,” or like I’ve seen Black K-pop fans or people, Black people that are in the K-pop industry be like, oh, don’t show this to K-Music And Black Women. I don’t want to end up on her page, blah, blah, blah. And it’s like, it’s like, okay I think I see it both ways. These people do have points and they’re just trying to say hey you painting Black people in a certain way that isn’t necessarily positive, but at the same time I think at the end of the day, to me, its all in good fun. That’s kind of how I feel about that.
Lars: I, I have to say that in it’s current, it’s the way its current version right now. I don’t think [it’s good of Black fans].
Destiny: I would say the same it’s, it’s a half and half type of thing, but yeah, it is for young people to get into and find that partnership or that friendship that, you know, we all want and need, especially as Black women and finding agroup of people, similar to us who liked the same things, but at the same time, like it’s really problematic.
And honestly, if there, and I like to do this a lot to see how it would bother me. If I had somebody who was like, um, RnB and White men and there’s cringey posts and you met somebody named Keisha or something. Yeah. And you’re like taking these, these stories and it’s like, okay, she’s not even an RnB person. She’s wearing regular degular Monica on the road that you just talk about it. You just be like, I love my sista. Like I would die. I would die and I would petition to have it taken down. So, its just like.. idk…
Notes:
This was recorded before K-Music and Black Women announced the closing of her blog.
All three hosts both are anime and K-pop fans.
Join our exclusive Black K-pop fan forum here.
